And yes, we are still expected to do our jobs!

[lostinapapercup]

Welcome to BSG Monday!

This week we're talking about 33, and I think there's a lot to love about this episode. There will be series spoilers without warnings under the cut and in comments.





(And in advance, please forgive my slow response time.)

33 is one of my favorite episodes of the show because it's pretty much the essence of the plot (or at least the plot of the first three seasons) distilled into a single episode. Besides that, it keeps up the pace and maintains the mood of the miniseries, and it also introduces us to some of the show's most iconic images. As before, feel free to answer whatever you like or bring up your own questions.

• Dee discovered some of the ship's corridors had been turned into a memorial. Laura updated the survivor count for the first time. As pilots filed out of the ready room, they took turns touching a photograph on the wall. I'm always struck by how easy they made it to relate to this mind-blowingly large-scale tragedy. What did you find to be the most touching moment of this episode?



• The Six we see interacting with Gaius has motives that aren't exactly clear but a faith that's persistent. When you first watched this, what did you think Six was? A hallucination? Gaius's conscience? A clear sign that Gaius was a Cylon? Having watched the entire show, are you disappointed by what she actually turned out to be?



• I grew to really love Tigh over the course of the show, but this was the episode where it all started. We knew he was good friends with Bill, but we get to witness that friendship in action here as he sends Bill off for the ten minutes of rest that should've been his own. How do you feel about Colonel Tigh?



• Speaking of Tigh, he's the first character to speak a sentiment often repeated throughout the show: do your job. It's not the only recurring line or theme. What are your favorites?



• The Olympic Carrier shows up. To the best of your knowledge, approximately 1300 innocent civilians are on board. Gaius Baltar, a brilliant but very strange man, advises you to cut communication with the ship, believing a Cylon agent could be aboard. Minutes later, Cylon ships find you for the 238th time. What do you do?

Next week's episode is Water.

Comments

[in-the-blue.livejournal.com]

In retrospect, there's something I love so much about this episode that I couldn't possibly have known the first time watching: it sets the pace for the entire series. The pilot did a great job setting the scene, but this one really is so completely relentless in every possible way. From the jumps every 33 minutes to the decisions that have to be made to the interactions between crew members, there really is no respite.

Until the end of the series.

The most touching moment of this episode: There are so many, from Tigh giving up his ten minutes to Bill to the way everyone touches the photograph to how exhausted Starbuck is in her little lecture to Lee. But I have to say that for me, the most touching moment comes near the end when Billy tells President Roslin that he has an update on the survivor count and you can just see she's about to break, that she can't take one more piece of bad news... and he tells her about the baby boy born on the Rising Star. I think my heart just about fell out of my chest at that one, especially on the rewatch. I wanted to bawl out of happiness.

When you first watched this, what did you think Six was? I figured she was Gaius's annoying conscience, a toaster-shaped Jiminy Cricket, which was fitting because both Gaius and Jiminy are really annoying in general.

Having watched the entire show, are you disappointed by what she actually turned out to be? That's a really great question. I don't know that I was actually disappointed at what she turned out to be; the revelation provided a sort of note of levity at that point and made me both smirk and roll my eyes simultaneously. I'm still not sure if it was a cheap way out or a mark of brilliance. I... liked Angel!Six better than ILU-Tigh!Six, so I suppose I was kind of relieved. But only mildly so.

How do you feel about Colonel Tigh? This episode, for me, is the one where Tigh goes from being a complete ass to having more depth than was initially apparent. My favorite line of his in this episode is if the crew doesn't hate the X.O., then he's not doing his job. Besides, gotta make the old man look good. It shows us that he knows who he is and what he has to do, and what he needs to suffer because of it. Long story short, I appreciate Tigh immensely. He's a great character, beautifully written at this point in canon, and equally beautifully portrayed.

What are your favorite recurring lines or themes?: We-ell... who are the other Cylon models? That's probably the most nervewracking recurring theme (and in this one, with jokes about Boomer being a Cylon: cold, BSG, cold). Another one of my favorites is the all-too-human theme of second-guessing. They all question their own decisions (even the infallible Bill). My least favorite recurring theme is that Gaius always ends up getting away with murder.

What do you do about the Olympic Carrier? I listen to the very strange man. As Bill says, it's either us or them. The whole business with the Olympic Carrier seems to me like a test from the Cylons to see exactly how far the humans are willing to go in that situation. I'm not sure if humanity passed or failed, but it really did feel like a test to me, especially in retrospect.

I have a few questions to put forward too.

- What did you think of the use of stims for the patrol crew? Who was right, Lee or Starbuck? Aside from my abiding love for the scene where they argue over Starbuck not taking stimulants, there are all sorts of moral issues raised by the order, and the use of stims becomes another one of the show's recurring themes. I have mixed feelings about their use, even in this situation.

- The occurrences on Galactica and Colonial One are flanked by the scenes on Caprica with Helo. While at first it seems like the planetside scenes would be a respite from the every-33-minutes countdown on board, they weren't. No one was getting any sleep in any world, so here's the question: in what ways does Helo's story mirror the story from the ship? What surprised you most about the things that happened to him on Caprica? And is there anyone that Six won't kiss?

[lostinapapercup.livejournal.com]

and he tells her about the baby boy born on the Rising Star. I think my heart just about fell out of my chest at that one, especially on the rewatch. I wanted to bawl out of happiness.
That tearful smile on her face after updating the count for the baby gets me every time.

I figured she was Gaius's annoying conscience
Me too. I was a little disappointed by how it turned out in the end. Especially with all the ambiguity surrounding Starbuck.

I... liked Angel!Six better than ILU-Tigh!Six
As a general rule, I like real Six better than angel Six. That does falter pretty seriously in the last season, though.

It shows us that he knows who he is and what he has to do, and what he needs to suffer because of it.
I don't think all of his abrasiveness is because he knows his role, but I do think he's very aware of his role. I love him for both aspects of his character.

My least favorite recurring theme is that Gaius always ends up getting away with murder.
Yes!

The whole business with the Olympic Carrier seems to me like a test from the Cylons to see exactly how far the humans are willing to go in that situation.
That's a hell of a way to think about it. It never occurred to me that it was a test, but it certainly could've been. Having only seen The Plan once, I forget whether or not it was mentioned at all there. But with Cylons in the fleet, they probably knew enough about the state of the fleet and the Olympic Carrier specifically to assume there was no way the humans would so readily sacrifice another 1300 innocents.

Aside from my abiding love for the scene where they argue over Starbuck not taking stimulants, there are all sorts of moral issues raised by the order, and the use of stims becomes another one of the show's recurring themes
I like that scene, too; I almost asked a question about it, so I'm glad you did. Like you, I have mixed feelings about the use of stims in this episode. I'm with Starbuck about it on general terms, but after five days of having to run from the Cylons every 33 minutes I don't think they had many good options. This is before Kat and the new pilots come in, but it's close enough to her introduction that the availability of whatever stims were left among the pilots could've kick-started Kat's addiction, made it easier for her to find what she wanted.

No one was getting any sleep in any world, so here's the question: in what ways does Helo's story mirror the story from the ship?
Sort of mirroring the 33-minute cycle, every time it started to look like Helo stood a chance he got into another bad situation. He's gunning down his Centurion pursuers and then winds up in Six's tender loving care. Six is shot so Helo can escape, but that means he's running off with a Sharon copy. Even on first viewing you know it can't be a rogue Eight because of the second Six's secretive little smile as she watches them escape.

And is there anyone that Six won't kiss?
Starbuck!

[elliotsmelliot.livejournal.com]

I’m sorry for the late response. It has been a crazy week. This are very thoughtful questions.

1. I felt really bad for Dee in this episode because she took responsibility for the carrier disappearance. She is so relieved to find them again, and then devastated at what finally happens. I bet she wonders if that was still her fault.

2. I went back and forth between guessing she was either a hallucination or a chip. Gaius was smart enough to have created her in his head, but I also thought maybe Six was communicating to him somewhat. I think Gaius was the only one I was sure was not a Cylon. Did we ever figure out what Six was?

3. I appreciate him more on the re-watch in S1, but I remember not being too fond of him until the resistance storyline.

4. I am not good at remembering dialogue. Hard choices are definitely a recurring theme. So is suspicion.

5. If I just had to make the order, I would make the same call Bill and Laura made. But If had to do the actual shooting, I might chicken out.

[elliotsmelliot.livejournal.com]

From the jumps every 33 minutes to the decisions that have to be made to the interactions between crew members, there really is no respite. Until the end of the series.

I really loved how they conveyed the exhaustion in this episode, and the reluctance to give up. You're right, after this episode they may have longer than 33 minutes, but there is no respite until the end.

Starbuck had good point about the stims slowing her reflexes, but it was probably moot because exhaustion would hinder her anyway. I am amazed everyone was still standing after 5 days of this!

I forgot that Helo appeared right away. I like how his storyline gave a sense of the broader universe. His situation was a different variation on no respite from being in full survival mode. There was no method to the madness he was experiencing. I bet he would have liked a 33 minute break from the cylons. Of course, he only had to look out for himself, which was different.

[in-the-blue.livejournal.com]

Poor Helo. No backup, and then all the mind-games with the Cylons. It was one of those situations you knew wasn't going to get better no matter what, end of story. Too bad he couldn't have run into the C-Bucs and teamed up with them.

Look at me, rewriting the series to make it happier. Bah.

[in-the-blue.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, there are a lot of things about real-Six and her story arc that I came to appreciate over time. With the exception of the Six/Tigh nonsense which seemed misplaced as well as gratuitous, she really does mature a lot as a character. Angel!Six doesn't have to, of course.

One of my favorite things about the show is the ingrained level of duplicity, and they've set it all up so we don't know who to trust (ever) and don't know who's right (ever), and that's not easy to pull off. Usually there's a clear-cut case of right and wrong, but everybody in this show (man or machine or in-between) is drawn in such fine shades of gray that I find myself rooting for the wrong side from time to time, catch myself doing it, and have to reset. It's maddening and keeps me off-balance and I love the show for it.

[lostinapapercup.livejournal.com]

Don't be sorry! I'm clearly late myself here, and we're just glad to have you whenever you can make it.

1. Yeah, this was definitely a rough episode for Dee. I bet she would wonder if it's her fault, poor thing.

2. Official word is still vague but seems to be that the Six who appeared to Gaius and the Gaius who appeared to Six were messengers from God. Angels or something to that effect. I did read something kind of interesting where one of the writers said that she thinks of them as interested beings from a civilization much more advanced... but really, messengers from God fits more with the themes of the show as they were delivered to us, I think. For better or for worse. I did feel Gaius was the only person I could be sure wasn't a Cylon, though.

4. I don't think there's a single episode that doesn't have a hard choice in it. I wonder how many episodes are suspicion-free. Certainly not many, but I may be able to think of one or two.

5. Yeah, I can understand why the order was given, but if I'd been Lee or Starbuck I think I would have faltered.